Misplaced Mage
Sep 18, 05:58 PM
There's no way to compare the two. Both IS-95 and GSM implement a variety of different codecs that are provided differently by different operators. In the area I live, Cingular (GSM) tries to force many phones to use something called AMR-HR, which has "acceptable" voice quality when you have good reception, and drops to barely incomprehensable with any deterioration in signal strength. T-Mobile (GSM) clearly doesn't, and I can talk and listen to someone with both of us sounding like we're on a landline with one bar of signal. On the same phone.
Likewise, Verizon (IS-95) uses some awful bitrate codec for its network where I live (I believe they're heavily oversubscribed here) where pretty much everyone sounds like they're dying from some serious lung problem, and Sprint PCS (IS-95 too) doesn't and generally the call quality, at medium to good reception, seems pretty much ok. Sub-landline, but not seriously so.
Verizon and Sprint have used EVRC (Enhanced Variable Rate Codec) for several years now. EVRC, in turn, replaced QCELP (a.k.a. Qualcomm PureVoice). Down the road we should see EVRC replaced by SMV (Selectable Mode Vocoder), 4GV (Qualcomm's Fourth Generation Vocoder), or VMR-WB.
With the variety of voice codecs the operators use, you can't really make a fair judgement merely on the basis of network technology. Either the operator's cheap, or it isn't. IS-95 was chosen by many networks on the basis that it's spectrum efficient (ie it's cheap), but on the other hand Sprint PCS was always content with call drops when I used it to handle network overloading rather than seriously compromising on call quality. Cingular's move to GSM has caused problems in that it's using a significantly less spectrum efficient technology than the technology it replaced, so Cingular's had to, in many places, hopefully temporarily, use the crappy half-rate codecs to boost capacity until it can get more towers online.
I wouldn't use voice quality as a way to judge the technologies.
Well said! People must understand that the codecs for digital phones in use today were originally designed to squeeze voice through a very narrow upstream pipe—typically 9.6kbps and under—resulting in different approaches to the problem of quality vs. bandwidth given the processing power available in phone chipsets at the time. Now that upstream data bandwidth and portable processing power are becoming less of a problem, we should start hearing improvements as newer codecs are adopted by the carriers in the phones they sell their customers. And I'm sure they'll trumpet the fact when they do. :D
Likewise, Verizon (IS-95) uses some awful bitrate codec for its network where I live (I believe they're heavily oversubscribed here) where pretty much everyone sounds like they're dying from some serious lung problem, and Sprint PCS (IS-95 too) doesn't and generally the call quality, at medium to good reception, seems pretty much ok. Sub-landline, but not seriously so.
Verizon and Sprint have used EVRC (Enhanced Variable Rate Codec) for several years now. EVRC, in turn, replaced QCELP (a.k.a. Qualcomm PureVoice). Down the road we should see EVRC replaced by SMV (Selectable Mode Vocoder), 4GV (Qualcomm's Fourth Generation Vocoder), or VMR-WB.
With the variety of voice codecs the operators use, you can't really make a fair judgement merely on the basis of network technology. Either the operator's cheap, or it isn't. IS-95 was chosen by many networks on the basis that it's spectrum efficient (ie it's cheap), but on the other hand Sprint PCS was always content with call drops when I used it to handle network overloading rather than seriously compromising on call quality. Cingular's move to GSM has caused problems in that it's using a significantly less spectrum efficient technology than the technology it replaced, so Cingular's had to, in many places, hopefully temporarily, use the crappy half-rate codecs to boost capacity until it can get more towers online.
I wouldn't use voice quality as a way to judge the technologies.
Well said! People must understand that the codecs for digital phones in use today were originally designed to squeeze voice through a very narrow upstream pipe—typically 9.6kbps and under—resulting in different approaches to the problem of quality vs. bandwidth given the processing power available in phone chipsets at the time. Now that upstream data bandwidth and portable processing power are becoming less of a problem, we should start hearing improvements as newer codecs are adopted by the carriers in the phones they sell their customers. And I'm sure they'll trumpet the fact when they do. :D
Slix
Mar 22, 01:30 PM
Glad to see Thunderbolt coming to more products.
Infinity
Jul 14, 10:37 AM
Does anyone think we should be hitting 4ghz about now?
I mean weve been stuck on 2.x for ages. Whats the deal? A 4ghz quad would be frickin awesome. :confused:
Would you rather a Pentium D @ 4Ghz or, Core 2 Extreme @ 2.93Ghz or even Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz?
Granted, the Pentium D example was a little bad and although its been hammered a billion times already, let me just say, Gigaherz is only a part of the equation when it comes to speed of modern CPU's.
According to Anadtech, Conroe blows eveything else out of the water in regards to sheer performance. Give me a Core 2 Architecture anyday.
I mean weve been stuck on 2.x for ages. Whats the deal? A 4ghz quad would be frickin awesome. :confused:
Would you rather a Pentium D @ 4Ghz or, Core 2 Extreme @ 2.93Ghz or even Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz?
Granted, the Pentium D example was a little bad and although its been hammered a billion times already, let me just say, Gigaherz is only a part of the equation when it comes to speed of modern CPU's.
According to Anadtech, Conroe blows eveything else out of the water in regards to sheer performance. Give me a Core 2 Architecture anyday.
FinderUser213
Mar 29, 03:08 PM
UHM... iOS is far more open-source than windows is. Nice try... Android might be more open-source though, I'm not sure.
You are 100% right; OS X/iOS are much more opensource than windows. I wasn't talking about Windows though.
And android is FULLY opensource :)
You are 100% right; OS X/iOS are much more opensource than windows. I wasn't talking about Windows though.
And android is FULLY opensource :)
rtharper
Sep 14, 10:44 AM
Along with updated Apature, could Apple launch CS2 universal with Adobe?
No. Adobe has already said they won't go Universal until CS3
No. Adobe has already said they won't go Universal until CS3
Funkymonk
Apr 22, 03:09 PM
would be sweet if they lowered the price.
bedifferent
May 3, 06:30 PM
Why would Apple do that?
What has Apple done since the iPhone:
1. kill Xserve
2. Drop their dedicated three ACD CCFL LCD lineup that was top notch and replaced with one stripped down iMac LED LCD
3. Ditch "Resolution Independence" (it's been over 4 years, c'mon Apple!)
4. Increased focus on iDevices and iOS (yeah, it's banked them $55+ billion, great, invest a small portion back into the Prosumer market Apple pulled away from with a full display line and a re-vamp of Pro-sumer desktops and apps, they revamped a mobile device market they can do the same with the Prosumer market and make money)
5. Begin merging iOS with OS X Lion
5. Funnel less money into Pro-Apps (Final Cut X is meh)
6. Ditch ZFS+ development from Sun Microsystems to replace HFS+ before it was too late
7. Wreck .Mac w/ MobileMe to market Windows iDevices owners w/ little Windows OS integration (iDisk, iLife, and FUNCTIONAL Office syncing are lacking making MobileMe a rip-off for Windows users)
8. Replace reasonably priced PowerMac G4/5's w/ over priced/over powered Xeon Server based Mac Pro's and no serious revamp in over 8 years. PowerMac's cost anywhere from $1400+, were great for professional photographers/designers/professionals/small businesses, esp. paired w/ the late ACD CCFL line which worked perfectly with OS X.
9. Drop focus on OS X development - iOS Lion is schizophrenic w/ iOS features in OS X: Launchpad, 2D Spaces, Mission Control, lack of TRIM for 3rd party Sandforce SSD's, painful ergonomic implementation of multi-touch w/ the "Magic Trackpad," etc.
10. OpenGL is seriously lagging
11. iLife '11 in 32-bit?!
12. "Pro-sumer" App's such as Aperture "improvements" w/ "Share to Facebook." Keep that consumer shizz in iPhoto and focus on better professional tools Apple.
13. Produce more than one LED LCD and w/ longer than 2' Mini-DisplayPort/USB chords (had to buy Griffen cables to extend both of my 24" LED LCD's to my 2010 Mac Pro at ~$30 each)
15. iWork '11?
16. iOS err, OS X App Store?
17. USB 3.0?
18. Blu-Ray (need I say more)
19. Lack of "daisy chaining" display with Mini-DisplayPort. "ThunderBolt" ports can daisy chain but:
rom Apple:
“The Thunderbolt port will give you plug-and-play performance with a whole new world of Thunderbolt peripherals, as well as with the Apple LED Cinema Display and other Mini DisplayPort peripherals. You can daisy-chain as many as six devices, including your display.”
One BIG problem with this setup – the cable! Apple Cinema Displays have a wonderful 3-pronged cable that carries power, video signal, and usb (to power the usb ports on the back of the display). If you use the cable the way it’s intended, there’s no way to plug anything else into that port.
Currently, the only way to use your display and an additional device at the same time, is to physically position that device within a few inches of the Thunderbolt port on the computer and divert the (short) video cable to that other device – then run a cable from the secondary device to the computer. Am I the only one who thinks that’s just plain stupid?
I think I covered enough :)
What has Apple done since the iPhone:
1. kill Xserve
2. Drop their dedicated three ACD CCFL LCD lineup that was top notch and replaced with one stripped down iMac LED LCD
3. Ditch "Resolution Independence" (it's been over 4 years, c'mon Apple!)
4. Increased focus on iDevices and iOS (yeah, it's banked them $55+ billion, great, invest a small portion back into the Prosumer market Apple pulled away from with a full display line and a re-vamp of Pro-sumer desktops and apps, they revamped a mobile device market they can do the same with the Prosumer market and make money)
5. Begin merging iOS with OS X Lion
5. Funnel less money into Pro-Apps (Final Cut X is meh)
6. Ditch ZFS+ development from Sun Microsystems to replace HFS+ before it was too late
7. Wreck .Mac w/ MobileMe to market Windows iDevices owners w/ little Windows OS integration (iDisk, iLife, and FUNCTIONAL Office syncing are lacking making MobileMe a rip-off for Windows users)
8. Replace reasonably priced PowerMac G4/5's w/ over priced/over powered Xeon Server based Mac Pro's and no serious revamp in over 8 years. PowerMac's cost anywhere from $1400+, were great for professional photographers/designers/professionals/small businesses, esp. paired w/ the late ACD CCFL line which worked perfectly with OS X.
9. Drop focus on OS X development - iOS Lion is schizophrenic w/ iOS features in OS X: Launchpad, 2D Spaces, Mission Control, lack of TRIM for 3rd party Sandforce SSD's, painful ergonomic implementation of multi-touch w/ the "Magic Trackpad," etc.
10. OpenGL is seriously lagging
11. iLife '11 in 32-bit?!
12. "Pro-sumer" App's such as Aperture "improvements" w/ "Share to Facebook." Keep that consumer shizz in iPhoto and focus on better professional tools Apple.
13. Produce more than one LED LCD and w/ longer than 2' Mini-DisplayPort/USB chords (had to buy Griffen cables to extend both of my 24" LED LCD's to my 2010 Mac Pro at ~$30 each)
15. iWork '11?
16. iOS err, OS X App Store?
17. USB 3.0?
18. Blu-Ray (need I say more)
19. Lack of "daisy chaining" display with Mini-DisplayPort. "ThunderBolt" ports can daisy chain but:
rom Apple:
“The Thunderbolt port will give you plug-and-play performance with a whole new world of Thunderbolt peripherals, as well as with the Apple LED Cinema Display and other Mini DisplayPort peripherals. You can daisy-chain as many as six devices, including your display.”
One BIG problem with this setup – the cable! Apple Cinema Displays have a wonderful 3-pronged cable that carries power, video signal, and usb (to power the usb ports on the back of the display). If you use the cable the way it’s intended, there’s no way to plug anything else into that port.
Currently, the only way to use your display and an additional device at the same time, is to physically position that device within a few inches of the Thunderbolt port on the computer and divert the (short) video cable to that other device – then run a cable from the secondary device to the computer. Am I the only one who thinks that’s just plain stupid?
I think I covered enough :)
Dr.Gargoyle
Sep 14, 09:28 AM
do tell. why?
Photokina is a photo convention. Not a computer convention.
Photokina is a photo convention. Not a computer convention.
Ugg
Apr 11, 07:28 PM
Its a diesel ;). But I guess it also shows how crazy US emissions regulations are.
Is it emissions regulation or just plain laziness by the automakers?
Is it emissions regulation or just plain laziness by the automakers?
Durendal
Sep 26, 11:24 AM
I hate to say this folks, but even an iPhone wouldn't be worth having to deal with Cingular's godawful service. Reception is poor in areas where it's supposed to be good and even when you have good reception, you get dropped calls due to network error/rejected/dropped. I've had Cingular for a while now, and I am preparing to drop it with eagerness, even if that means a $200 contract termination fee. I want to slug that twat who says Cingular has the least dropped calls, because it's a ********* LIE.
ezekielrage_99
Sep 18, 12:56 AM
I think the two of them are hard to compare. In this arguement, I'm not advocatinig CDMA, I'm just trying to show that there's no need to bash them as they are hard to compare.
CDMA and TDMA both get the job done; they divide up bandwidth so that multiple users can use a base station at the same time. They way they do that is just different. That cliche phrase of "comparing apples to oranges" applies to the age old question of GSM vs. CDMA.
You're right it's just like the ages old Mac verses PC debate can't really compare them.
It really comes down to want you need to do and how much you are prepared to spend.
CDMA and TDMA both get the job done; they divide up bandwidth so that multiple users can use a base station at the same time. They way they do that is just different. That cliche phrase of "comparing apples to oranges" applies to the age old question of GSM vs. CDMA.
You're right it's just like the ages old Mac verses PC debate can't really compare them.
It really comes down to want you need to do and how much you are prepared to spend.
Bomino
Apr 25, 01:57 AM
Good luck tracking my actual identity down. And also good luck getting anything you dug up admitted in court, because there is absolutely nothing legal about introducing any evidence of my identity you found by tying this account back to my IP/ISP without a warrant.
-Don
you just admitted that what you are doing is wrong.
-Don
you just admitted that what you are doing is wrong.
1984
Sep 14, 04:51 AM
My wife busted her phone today, and called me for a recommendation. All she wants as a Mom is a phone with a long battery life and great reception.
She left the Cingular store with a crappy phone with a million features she will never use.
It's too bad the Motorola MOTOFONE (http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=164) isn't available yet. It would have been perfect. A phone where battery life, reception and ease of use are the main features? Finally some gets it.
She left the Cingular store with a crappy phone with a million features she will never use.
It's too bad the Motorola MOTOFONE (http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details.jsp?globalObjectId=164) isn't available yet. It would have been perfect. A phone where battery life, reception and ease of use are the main features? Finally some gets it.
door4
Sep 5, 11:48 PM
i know, but in that case apple has to port front row to windows. Or they have to implement front row into itunes or something like that, so that it will work exactly the same way on windows as on mac. as long as they have itunes installed. but that way, all media files (movie store movies, avi, divx, video_ts folders and even photo's) should be stored inside itunes.
Apple will probably just update ITMS to be a better venue for movies. M$ probably doesn't want a new "media center" to conflict with theirs.
Apple will probably just update ITMS to be a better venue for movies. M$ probably doesn't want a new "media center" to conflict with theirs.
rockthecasbah
Sep 13, 05:35 AM
Does anyone know how to get into the quick search on the 5G iPods? I updated mine with the 1.2 software but I only see the quick scrolling letter thing.
chuckles:)
Sep 4, 09:06 PM
an airport express that can stream video... could I be any less underwhelmed? :rolleyes:
agreed... that insider article made it sound like a miricle machine.
agreed... that insider article made it sound like a miricle machine.
HecubusPro
Sep 19, 04:27 PM
The average Joe is not the customer for iTV. Average Joe might buy a $40 DVD player from Walmart to hook up to a $200 TV. Remember, the iTV is meant for a HDTV. In fact you cannot even easily hook it up to a non-HDTV. It has only HDMI and component video outputs. These outputs are found only on HDTVs.
Actually, my old sony 27" CRT was a standard def TV and it had component inputs, and that was 5 years ago. Coupled with my sony progressive scan DVD player with component outputs, and was able to watch proper anamorphic video on my standard def TV. At that time that was the main selling point for me getting that TV. Searching around just now, I found quite a few standard def TV's that have component inputs.
Of course, I have an HDTV now, but for what it was, that 27" was a great tv with component inputs.
Actually, my old sony 27" CRT was a standard def TV and it had component inputs, and that was 5 years ago. Coupled with my sony progressive scan DVD player with component outputs, and was able to watch proper anamorphic video on my standard def TV. At that time that was the main selling point for me getting that TV. Searching around just now, I found quite a few standard def TV's that have component inputs.
Of course, I have an HDTV now, but for what it was, that 27" was a great tv with component inputs.
appleguy
Sep 4, 09:54 PM
Okay, a FrontRow/AirPort Express/iTunes-downloadable Media Center device is SWEET!! I bet that is EXACTLY what we see Apple delivering!!
Now my bet is on that Apple has been watching this thread to see what we come up with and will now halt the announcement of this great device to punish us all:rolleyes:
Now my bet is on that Apple has been watching this thread to see what we come up with and will now halt the announcement of this great device to punish us all:rolleyes:
bdkennedy1
Sep 14, 06:51 AM
Whatever. Why would Apple base its phone technology on the first generation Nano that scratched too much? The headline should have read, "Apple Phone Concept Revealed".
daneoni
Sep 12, 04:30 PM
Educated guess would be "big" iPod sales will slump whilst the Nanos & Shuffles will skyrocket.
mterlouw
Sep 4, 03:25 PM
I think it is the highly anticipated iToilet with universal iPod dock and count 'em four AppleTalk ports.
stridemat
Apr 22, 01:39 AM
How does streaming music to my iPhone help me, when O2 cap my Internet usage, and then charge when you use more.
kasei
Sep 19, 06:35 PM
This is great news. I guess the more we buy the faster we will see other studios with better movies. I guess I will take the plung and buy a movie today.
akadmon
Sep 4, 11:03 PM
Merom MBPs of course :D
I second this emoticon!
If anyone at Apple HQs is listening, please give us a revved up/priced down MBP. Merom + 160 GB/7200 rpm hdd at $1999 would be sweet. I don't care to watch movies on anything less than a 50" screen, and I sure as hell am not moved to tears by an 8GB nano that is priced at 75% of a regular iPod. C'mon Apple, it's not too late!
I second this emoticon!
If anyone at Apple HQs is listening, please give us a revved up/priced down MBP. Merom + 160 GB/7200 rpm hdd at $1999 would be sweet. I don't care to watch movies on anything less than a 50" screen, and I sure as hell am not moved to tears by an 8GB nano that is priced at 75% of a regular iPod. C'mon Apple, it's not too late!